I have a question for this discussion group. This morning, Father said that his parents were angry when he decided to enter the seminary. They were previously not Church-goers. He said, “Jesus caused them great pain from my decision.” He also related that his parents have come back to Church and are very active.

I have a problem with anyone who ascribes causality of pain or bad events to God. In the struggles of my life, I have come to believe that God is with us through pain that comes from life, and that God gives us grace to handle the problems of life, but I’ve never believed in a God who causes pain for us.

Is God-given pain bad theology?

Kathy,

Thanks for clarifying that. I’ve actually heard this type of statement from many priests over the years. “God will do anything to get your attention.” Some of them followed up with examples, “take your health,” “take your children,” etc. I’ve always rejected this theology and thought, “Why would I want to believe in a God who works that way?”

Likewise, people who believe that piety is a facial (usually sad sack) expression have it wrong in my view. We won’t be attracting many converts to the faith, if we look so miserable and believe that God is waiting to zap us.

When my little sister died, my parents told us that the “angels came and took her away.” For two toddlers, ages 2 and 3, this was scary, and my older brother and I tiptoed around corners checking for angels before we would proceed. Then, when my first son died at the age of four months, people told me it was God’s will.

It took me years to sort out a theology that doesn’t include a pain-giving God who wills babies to die and angels who take babies away.

Kathy, I am so glad that you helped clarify that “hate stuff.” I think that people could go wild with a misunderstanding of what hate means. And it seems to be happening all the time as an excuse for exclusivity. It’s easy to say I love Jesus but hate those people who live down the block, who are different because of gender, age, social status, race, sexual orientation, religion. It’s easy to say the gospel tells me I’m supposed to hate, so why should I reconcile, forgive or ask forgiveness? Whoa… What a gross misinterpretation that would be, a self-centered manipulation of God’s word to keep us from seeing others with their God-given dignity! How then could we say that we love God when we know that Jesus was about embracing not excluding people, no matter who they were?
The question about loving less so that I can grow in faith really hits home. I need to love less selfishly and more selflessly. If I reached out to Jesus more, I would be letting go of the things that I grasp so tightly, be they ideas, things, or people. And then, when it comes to looking at others as if they were unlovable, these are the ones I have to love more, because this is what God is doing. Perhaps what I have to do most of all is love with the heart of Jesus. Prayer leads me to say: “Help me love You, choose You and give myself to You. Be with me as I embrace those who need to know that they are loved.”

I was always last in my family. Financial resources and emotional support went to my older brother first, and whatever was left seemed to mostly dissipate before it got to me. After years of therapy, and the realization that I’m not dead last with God, the impact of being last still affects my life. I always expect to be last and disrespected, so my perspective is looking for that slight. I have to consciously remind myself that my family was dysfunctional, and the “last” status was not about me. It’s hard at times to make that connection prior to reacting to a perceived slight, but I’m getting better at it. Yesterday morning, Father started his homily by asking, “Who’s the best person here?” I didn’t automatically think it was for certain somebody else! That’s progress.

At 5’9”, I’m taller than many women I know. As a child attending Catholic school, I was frequently last in line because we stood smallest to tallest. Regardless of whether or not I could make out the writing on the blackboard, I was assigned the last seat in a row of desks so that I would not block the view of other students. There was something about “not blocking other people’s view” that seems to linger in my head even now. I tend to stand behind people when watching a parade march by. What happens is people taller than I am find a way in front. Then guess what. Someone is blocking my view. I automatically go to the back of a group picture so that I don’t cover anyone’s face. This usually means I’m in an awkward position and an even more awkward pose. As I write this, I’m asking myself why I’ve allowed this labeling as a child to become the way I behave today. In truth, my height is something I cannot control.
Since I’m far from athletic, during high school gym class I found out what it means to have a team “stuck with me.” Usually one of the opposing team captains sighed loudly before choosing me or another teenage girl. So sometimes I was next to last, which didn’t make me feel much better. I realize I’ve developed an “I should be last” attitude. I tend to wait for other people to take their seat, then sit wherever there’s an empty space. When meetings break up into smaller groups for chit chat, I often find myself left out. It takes so much energy to “break into” one of those pairs or threesomes. Then I ask myself if I’m not interesting enough to be part of the conversation. Perhaps I’m not good enough for them to be with me.
Being last comes out as not being worthy, loveable or good enough. How sad is that?
When it comes to ice breaking and introductions, I usually make the first move. Though it takes a lot of courage, it keeps me from feeling rejected, even if the conversation is short lived. The first step is something I can control. In a group setting, if someone asks a question about something I know, I am first to offer an answer. I take pride in my knowledge, and as I grow older, my wisdom, so I feel free to share it. (Notice, I keep showing up on this website.) The place I most allow myself to be first is in church. I sit right up front, not quite the first row, but in the second. Before Jesus, I just know that he invites me to come up closer because with him I am worthy, loveable and enough. Ad it doesn’t seem to matter whose view I block.

Oh, yeah, something else that struck me on Sunday morning as Father gave his homily on humility. The Magnificat — Mary’s proclamation that from now on “all will call me blessed.” She knew who she was in God’s sight. Humility is not feeling bad about oneself, or thinking we are less than others, as we were so often taught. True humility is simply knowing who we are in God’s sight. It’s accepting the gifts and talents that God has given us and using them to further the kingdom here on earth.

Better late than never!! “Our/my” Father Pat, of MPB in Denver, had a homily that I believe will stay with me forever!! In talking about how “we” can look at one another and make such judgments as “that person will never be in heaven.” His little sardonic laugh and assurance that every toot-head, whom I most disdain, will be rubbing elbows with me! BUT, the crux of what he said, that has given me my own “come to Jesus meeting” is…”think about this…Heaven with YOU and no one else. You will get to spend eternity with YOU!” Thinking that I’m a fairly decent, kind person; my thoughts went immmediately to my many weaknesses and the bits of my personality that can sometimes bite me like a tiny wasp sting! Me and me in Heaven…for all eternity. SO MANY things to work on!! So
little time! The idea kinda takes the uppity right out of me!!

When I was a child, I rode the bus more often than I do now. I can remember the stop-go experience of a city bus, with people getting on or off. Exact change dropped into a glass coin-meter made it less time consuming to get on. Sometimes the bus was empty and there was a lot of room. Other times the bus was crowded or even over crowded with people’s knees bumping or with backsides squeezing an extra person onto the seat. Every once in a while, someone stood to let an elderly person, a pregnant woman or one with a couple kiddies sit down. Occasionally, people who were lucky enough to sit, held packages on their laps for those who stood hanging on for dear life with their hands wrapped around a pole or in a dangling loop suspended from the roof of the motor coach. It was easy enough to pull the cord and disembark when the bus was not crowded. But when it was, not only did one have to say, “Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me,” while moving through the multitude, but there were times when leaving through the rear exit caused the traveler have to shout to the bus driver, “Open the door again, please,” so as not to miss the stop. People knew their destination and how to get there. They wanted to get where they were going so they followed the rules, put up with some inconveniences and kept moving. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the same applied to everyone on the way to heaven?
Thanks, Kathy, for the challenging question about what I’m changing so that I might be comfortable in heaven. There seems to be one answer, accepting people for who they are when they don’t live up to my expectations. (Maybe even letting go of expectations…) The cashier who talks to a fellow customer service rep while ringing up my groceries and who doesn’t even seem to notice that I’m standing right there. The person who calls my friends and me “guys” when we are very definitely and visibly women. The woman who has taken a bath in perfume/cologne and causes the entire busload of people to wear her scent when we get off.
Is it just tolerance or is it bigger than putting up with a person or situation? Is it acceptance? Unconditional positive regard? Love? What I’m working on changing is the way I love God, other people and myself. I’m trying to live that commandment of loving with my whole heart, mind, soul, person, so that I’m not going to miss my chance of getting off the bus because of all those “HE’s and SHE’s.” It means being mindfully conscious of the face of Christ in each of the people that I connect with whether by choice or circumstance. My actions and attitudes are my responsibility. I’m trying to love God because God IS and to accept that God loves me just because it’s what God does—LOVE. So I attempt to regard myself through the eyes of compassion and self-acceptance.
What you said about giving “God permission to make me fit for heaven,” speaks so clearly to me. It reminds me to cooperate with the grace of the day in the midst of the joy and sorrow, abundance and loss, fullness and emptiness, hurt and forgiveness. Your challenge helps me recognize who I am in the midst of it all and offers a world of possibilities for all that I can be.

This is a great question, Kathy. My thought is that Mary was pondering the reality of her situation — how on earth was she going to explain this pregnancy to her cousin? When John the Baptist leaped in Elizabeth’s womb, Mary’s problem was solved. Elizabeth’s response, “Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” gave way to Mary’s praise of God. Would that every pregnant woman could see the miracle of life and praise God unceasingly!

This is may be my favorite reading. This is the strength of woman in faith, love and charity. Mary’s Obedience is what we ought to strive for. I think that the girls from that area grow up and marry as young as they did then. So her youth and innocence isn’t the only heroic act that we usually focus on, It’s the pure faith and obeience she shows through the whole life of Jesus that makes me ponder her goodness. I think as she walked that journey to see Elizabeth, she was thinking okay now what do I do, I’m suppose to marry Joseph and how will mom and dad take the news. And just how do you raise a God? The usual thoughts that a new mother to be think about in her shoes. She knew that it would work out, but how would it develope, who would believe her and so on. Then with a few spiri filled moments it was clear as water. The two babies knew each other and Elizabeth knew that her own miracle child was in the presence of the Promised One. And Mary and Jesus had thier first believers.

When I was a child I thought that Mary making haste to Elizabeth’s house meant that she just took off after saying farewell to her parents. And then, when I was on pilgrimage in Israel, I realized that would have been a very difficult, treacherous journey for a young, pregnant teenager alone. It is desert country and would have been a place for outlaws to hide and take advantage of the unaware. There’s the scorching heat during the day and bitter cold at night. Wind and blasts of sand can be blinding and the lack of water dangerous.
If I understand the culture of first century Palestine, for safety’s sake and because she was a woman, Mary would have travelled with a group of people. Perhaps she had some quiet time, but then again, perhaps her fellow journeyers included some very chatty women. How does one hold such a secret as Mary carried in her womb? And yet, it wouldn’t be the stuff of conversation with acquaintances. Her good news had to be treasured.
As much as I think about how wonderful it is to have contemplative time to really enjoy what is happening in my soul, life is all around me as it must have been for Mary—setting up camp, preparing food, sitting around a fire, wondering are we there yet?
So what was Mary thinking about as she moved not only toward Ein Karem, but also deeper into the stillness of who she was and what was happening to her? She was probably praying for a safe journey. Perhaps she was asking God why she was chosen, what made her the one to be mother to the Messiah. As she walked on, I do believe the poor and the burdened, the weak and the innocent were all around her, and as Kathy mentioned, the “signs of Rome’s peace.” What an awful sight! Perhaps her thoughts and longings went to how their lives could be transformed. Jesus was named “Savior.” Was her prayer like any other mother’s just saying his name that she heard the angel whisper to her? Would Jesus be able to overcome all this pain that was part of the people and situations she met along the way?
They still show up in newspapers and on the internet every day. How does one hold in contradiction the peace that God offers when war abounds? How does one embrace forgiveness in one hand and sentence an inmate to death? In the 21st century how does a woman in the Middle East get sentenced to 99 lashes for talking with a man or 200 lashes for being raped? How do we forget the story of the Annunciation, Visitation and Nativity?
Someplace during the journey Mary recognized hope, possibility and God’s Divine Imagination at work. When she met Elizabeth, it could not be contained and poured out of her in praise. The journey of about fifty miles and maybe two weeks brought her to such an awareness of God in the now, that there could only be the power of God at work. Both women knew God’s presence. John leapt in his mother’s womb. I have to wonder if we wouldn’t dance a lot more if we were more aware of God-with-us, Emmanuel. But perhaps before we are surprised enough to take a leap, we have to set off on a journey, one that moves us from a relatively safe place, into the desert with strangers, where it’s dangerous to our ideas, our thought patterns, our very lives. Then we can cross over into the kind of expectation that Mary had and the truth that she discovered.

Every time I think that our culture is doomed to the self-absorption and “anything goes” attitude of what seems to be the majority these days, I remember that Christ said that he would be with us to the end of time. The morality of our Church will not be overcome by any of those who wish to destroy a decent society by allowing all kinds of immoral behavior and self-absorbed attitudes. God is faithful and will not leave us to destroy ourselves. I am sometimes discouraged by Catholics who don’t seem to understand church teaching, but then I realize that God will save us even if there are only ten innocent people left. (Genesis 18:32) I trust God’s faithfulness to His Church.

Cris and Sandy, thank you for sharing your stories of courage and strength. To have endured such great losses…yet to speak with such love and faith; you truly lead by example!!

Blessings.

Before I learned that there really is no answer to the question “why,” I found myself asking it through a lot of life’s situations. Not only WHY is this happening to me, but also WHY is this happening TO ME? When the light bulb finally went on, the question became “how?” How do I live through this life experience? How do I grow despite the fact that I feel like I’m at a standstill? How do I live after losing someone I love? How do I gracefully move into another career? How do I continue to trust the God whom I’ve know since I was a child, especially when the God of my childhood seems so different to the adult that I am?
Perhaps this is where I find a piece of an answer to the question about remembering God’s faithfulness giving me strength. Yes, because God was there when my father died, I knew that God would be there when I faced the grief of my mother’s death. Because God was present in sudden bouts of illness, I knew God’s healing presence when I moved through breast cancer. God was always making memory present, alive and active. Even more, God was saying, “Discover who I am in this situation. Know me as I reveal myself to you in these circumstances.”
God’s faithfulness to me lets me know who God has been. The gift allows me to experience God in a new ways beyond what I dream is possible. It gives me strength because I stop putting God “into a box” where I limit what God can do. Instead, I wait upon the wild imagination of a God who takes me to new places of faith, just like Abraham and Sarah, who left their homeland and traveled to a place unknown. Throughout Scripture, God has been faithful, even when the chosen ones have turned away. The God I know cannot be unfaithful. Believing in this God is about being in relationship, and because of our friendship, I stand in a place of strength.

What a great question! I have no financial wealth. This is painful to me because there is such a huge need for so many and my resources are very limited. I have two family members living with me; and, a baby on the way! A bit more financial stability for them would be great; but, we work with what we have. Knowing that material wealth has never been my advantage…or disadvantage; I believe that the wealth I have accumulated over time is myself. In reality, it is all that I truly have. No matter where I go; I am always with me! Other than the clothes on my person; each day that I leave my home, and all that I own, I am all that I have. What part of “me” is hard to share is trust. I can be trusted and I know that this is one of my “assets”. It is trusting others…turning myself over to trust. We are all teachers in our lifetime…through example, through interaction, through observation, through intimacy. Sometimes our “teachers” are unkind, selfish, manipulating.
Maybe through happenstance, or poor judgment; I have had too many UNtrustworthy people in my life. I want to choose, in a more discerning manner, to open this part of my life;
share in the “wealth” of two-way trust.

Blessings to everyone…be safe this coming week. Thank you, Kathy!

How very BLESSED we have been this week with everyone’s sharing. All week I have found something that just brings me back to this site and read the different ways we are touched by what (or may be the Way) that Jesus speaks to us in this reading. Thank You Everyone for blessing me.

I am so behind with my reading. Bobbie and Michael…WOW!!!
“You make my heart soar like a hawk”!!!

You are so right Kathy, and that elephant’s name is Faith. My priest has said many times that the great irony is that even the Satanist believe in God. They fail in trusting that God The Father Of All, will hear and answer our prayers, and they can’t understand that sometimes the answers are “no.” We do not have His vision, we don’t know what the future holds, and sometimes “no” is the merciful answer. We however need never fear going to Him with whatever burdens our hearts. And guess what, no matter how awful it may seem, He is the One Who can understand it all. The Lord’s Prayer was the first prayer I said over and over again, as I was coming back to this Faith. I even got it on a poster and framed it, to remind me to say it and think about what it means. I like the different wording from “lead not us into temptation” to “put us not to the test.” I guess if we knock at the Lord’s door and ask Him for the tools we need to face the test of daily life, we can face about anything. I have learned that God doesn’t need me to pray to strenghten Himself, He asks me to pray to strenghten myself. It’s funny how we get things backwards, we think God depends on us for worship, Like He would disappear if no one prayed, All the things He asks us to do or not do, are not for His benefit but for our’s. I wonder how many other people have thought that way? Our power is in the faith we have in God, His Power is Eternal and dependent on no one and nothing. He is Father!

Becky wrote that sometimes the answer to prayer is “no.” I believe that sometimes the answer we hear is “no,” but it is really “yes,” which is another version of Becky’s perspective. The year after I graduated from the CBS, my prayer partner died of cancer. She had been to Lourdes a few months after we graduated, and God granted her prayer for healing in the best way possible — He healed her with the ultimate healing for which we all hope. God graced me to see this, and when my son died two-and-a-half years later, I was able to see the eternal blessing he had been granted. Only God knows what his life here would have been like had he survived the radiation and chemotherapy required for his bone marrow transplant, which was not successful after all. I am grateful for the gift of faith, because without it, I would not have been able to to on, either.

Reading “all” of our reactions to this week’s Gospel reading, reminds me of God’s power to reach everyone on their personal leavel. We have read about grieving,reclaiming faith and daily search for answers and more. The reality of His omnipresence comes into focus in
His written word and in the way His children receive it. I use to worry that so many different interpretations, would diminish the true meaning to Scripture and would be somewhat sacrilegious. After reviewing my journey and the sharing in these last few weeks I don’t feel that way anymore. Thanks again my Dear Kathy for this chance to learn, hear and share the many gifts of our Lord. Love You!!

The story of Martha and Mary is dear to my heart. and it brings me many questions as well. About to year ago a nephew of mine was teasing me about something, I think it was something offensive about my faith, if I remember right, and my reply was “I’ll let you know after I have talked it over with God!” he really got mad and said to me “God ain’t everything Auntie!” Little did he realize that for me God is everything, and yet may be he did. If I could just be sitting at The Lord’d feet, taking His goodness all in, I would be about the happiest person alive on earth or in Heaven. I spent so many years running away from Him, that now I crave a deeper closeness to Him. There isn’t anyone or anything more important Now the question I alway ask is the when the Bible says prayer without works is empty, wasn’t Martha working and serving the Lord, she was reaching out for a little help as we all do from time to time, and the Lord said Mary had pick the better (worship over service) this mixes me up which way is it, sever and aid our brothers and sisters for the service and love of our Lord or worship and let the work go? So many time I have been like the Martha’s of this live and stressed when I’ve saw so much to do and no help in sight. That if Jesus had said this to me I would have felt hurt and angery. I can remember a few times when I would be cleaning house and my sibs would be messing up right behind me, and my feeling was you ungreatful brats. So yeah, my heart goes out to Martha the worker.

I’m sitting here waiting for the phone to ring….my employer called early this morning and asked for a stay of a few hours before I go over to his home to work.

I decided to check out emails and found Kathy’s note. I want to take this moment to thank MichaelCarlos…who has the most beautiful name! for his comments to one of my writings,interpretations…several writings ago. I wanted to thank you at that very reading, Michael; but, being so new to this site, I wasn’t certain how to conduct myself.I wasn’t certain about whether we could engage in “conversation” with one another…..Your thoughts do not go into a “hole” or void. You write so well and seem to have wonderful insight into the verses that Kathy shares each week. I have been taken aback by EVERYONE’S insight into the weekly scriptures…so many deep and meaningful thoughts. I do not want to be remiss in saying that I read everything and appreciate all of you who take the time to write. I’m still learning. I may have misinterpreted HOW to respond to the scriptures. I think that I took the title, THE STORY AND YOU…quite literal…the YOU…and imposed that, within my own thinking, to mean how I reflect in a personal way to the readings and then add my own intepretation. I don’t seem to be as literate and knowledgeable as most all of you. But, then, maybe this is the beauty of interpretation….that it is personal.

I HOPE that this comes out LOOKING decent. I’m rather aghast when everything seems to have such conformity when I’m writing and the “final copy” is strewn all over the place!!

Let me never take anything or anyone for granted! Be patient with my writings; and, thank you for yours.

Kathy…just not suficient words for you. In this confusing world, you offer solace. Thank you.

Rita, thank you!

You know, after reading all the way we feel about this reading, it appears that was our Lord’s way of reminding us there is an importance in balance. It is like when Jesus said THE Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath. We do forget to balance our lives and make room for all God’s gifts. Many years ago I was very active in a Denver Parish, I was so active I forgot why I was being active. I made myself busy with being a part of everything. everything but worship. And I fell away and lost my faith my life was not balanced. If we listen very close to the reading we can hear Him say “Martha it okay to take a break and keep me company. And some we will eat and finish the tasks. The roof will not fall in if dinner is late and the floors arent swept.” See I am the Martha as I said earlier this week, I want to work for Heaven, we sometimes think Heaven is has the price of sweat and toil. But without worship it is empty. I want to thank everyone who reminded me of the Martha I was all work and no faith.

How many stories there are of lost opportunities for me….
About 8 years ago I worked with an emancipated teenage girl who came back from lunch and asked, “Guess what I did during lunch today.” My imagination was stuck and I found myself thinking of things like “bought a new pair of jeans, walked in the park?” I don’t know why I was surprised when she said, “I took a homeless man to lunch.” What a challenge…what a gift to me. I was intrigued by her daring and her charity, by her willingness to see beyond the appearance of the man on the street.
Six years later I drove past a man whose cardboard sign asked for money. There are always questions that run around in my mind about what will happen to the money that I pass on, though I must admit, once given away is no longer my responsibility. I circled around thinking about how it would be a great opportunity to invite him to lunch. Then the excuses surfaced. “Does your budget let you buy two lunches this week? You have plenty of food in the fridge. Do you want it to go to waste? Do you have time to stop and chat? Would it be safe?” Sad to say, I drove past him. My conscience nagged at me because this was opportunity knocking. So I decided on a compromise. I circled around and stopped to buy him a steak burrito and a cold drink. I took the same route to lead me where he stood, opened the car window and with a smile, handed him the meal. He graciously thanked me, sending me off with a lot of blessings. I went home to eat my leftovers alone and of course, I was safe. I never saw the man again and I often wonder what the encounter would have taught me if I were willing to actually sit with him and listen to his story. Sometimes buying two lunches might mean discovering something new about what it means to be human and created in God’s image. Sometimes being safe means losing out.

Yesterday, Independence Day, I visited a friend and sat with her on her front porch, lazily sipping iced tea. It was wonderful to be in Sabbath time, resting in the cool shade, leisurely listening to the wind move through the bushes and trees, anticipating the storm that was gathering as clouds changed shape and color. The foothills stood majestically to the west. Across the street, kids bounced gleefully on a trampoline. We could see their heads pop over the fence and hear them giggle. It was God’s time, with “important things” being set aside for what was more important, i.e., the recognition of the Beloved in all that is.
At the Mass of anticipation on Saturday, for recessional we sang “America the Beautiful” and I found myself in that place of wonder, happy to live in Colorado. The song always makes my misty-eyed. Having grown up on the east coast and enjoyed the ocean for over 40 years of my life, I ache for what is happening to the waters because of the oil spill and the carelessness with which we treat the seas, as if it were a place to deposit trash. A few weeks back I saw the film Oceans by Disney. It’s about the life that is deep withing the waters. A glorious film and a beautiful meditation. The mystery of sea life takes us into the mystery of God if we let it. If one has never been touched by the ocean, it can be too far removed to become a source of wonder. Let us take the time from this moment on, to pray blessing over the sea and all that it contains because the psalmist so long ago led us to pray, “Seas and rivers, bless the Lord.”

For me,because I can speak for no one else; this site that
Kathy is providing is a testing ground for me. Emailing is
so safe; so impersonal. I don’t have to look into the eyes of another individual. I can make assumptions about the
“voice” of another person. I can analyze and intuit thoughts and feelings behind words without ever inquiring
as to “why” or “how” a person came to the place in their
life where they currently “stand”. This will be a test for
me because ego always wants to shove aside feelings of the
heart and show how smart I might be; or, THINK I might be!
“Let me spar with another intellectually and see who comes
out on top” is so home grown within me!! MY test is to speak
from the heart and spirit of myself. This is the part of myself that I don’t get to share too often. I think that it is the better part of who I am; and, the part of me that needs the most exposure. I’m so appreciative and grateful
to be sharing with others; and, for their sharing with me…
through their writing.